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Sep 4 '08

[GLOBAL INFO]
Analysis: Deoxys-E (Deoxys-S)

[DEFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

Deoxys-E (also known as Deoxys-S) is the speed form of Deoxys, so named for only appearing in this form in Pokemon Emerald in the 3rd generation of games. Deoxys can readily change forms in D/P by visiting any of the meteorite rocks in Veilstone City.

Deoxys-E is a monotype Psychic pokemon, with single (2x) weaknesses to Dark, Ghost, and Bug, while resisting Psychic- and Fighting-type attacks and possessing no immunities or double weaknesses (4x). Deoxys-E’s (heretofore to be referred to as ‘Deoxys’) claim to fame is its ridiculous 180 base speed rating, the highest in the game. But with this glorious speed come some drawbacks: base 95 attack and special attack stats, base 90 defenses, and a whopping 50 base HP. Pairing Deoxys with Togekiss or Blaziken can help strengthen Deoxys’s mediocre attack by using Baton Pass, as well as provide it with protection from its weaknesses. Steelix, Skarmory, and Forretress are also welcome allies, as they also resist all of Deoxys’ weaknesses, and can provide Stealth Rock and/or Spikes support to help Deoxys along as well. Deoxys, in return, provides the team with some very fast support options, as well as an extremely effective means of revenge-killing the opposition [Please note that as of the time of this writing, Deoxys-E is considered OU, and will be analyzed in this context unless otherwise noted].

[/DEFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

[/GLOBAL INFO]

[SET]
Name: Revenge Killer (Special)
Item: Choice Specs
IVs: Max
EVs: 44 HP, 252 SpAtk, 214 Spe
Nature: Modest
Ability: Pressure
Stats: 252 HP / 203 Atk / 216 Def / 317 SpAtk / 216 SpDef / 449 Spe
Moves:
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast
- Shadow Ball / Psycho Boost

[/SET]

[SET DESCRIPTION]

This set should be Deoxys’s main set when considering it as a revenge killer. Choice Specs, along with max EVs and a Modest nature give it a respectable 475 Special Attack rating to work with. The set listed provides the best coverage outside of Blissey, who completely walls this set, taking only 39% damage, at most, from a Focus Blast (assuming Blissey is a min HP/ min SpDef variant). Boltbeam is, as always, a useful attack combo, while Shadow Ball covers other psychic types expecting to switch into a resisted Focus Blast or Psycho Boost. Psycho Boost is useful against Heracross and Infernape, as well as anything you can’t hit for super-effective damage with your other moves.

[/SET DESCRIPTION]

[OTHER OPTIONS]

Grass Knot or Energy Ball can replace anything but Focus Blast, otherwise you will be walled to death by Magnezone—Grass Knot will take a pretty big chunk out of Swampert (about 70%) with max HP/min SpDef, so it’s certainly worth considering. Another attack can be replaced if you really want both Psycho Boost and Shadow Ball, but the coverage they provide together is poor and thus not recommended. Also, Psychic can replace Psycho Boost if the stat drop turns you off; however, since Deoxys shouldn’t stay in longer than one or two consecutive turns, it shouldn’t be a huge concern.

Switching to some of Deoxys’s physical attacks is also possible, most notably Pursuit and Fire Punch, if you’re scared of Steels. If any physical attack is used, switch to a Rash or Mild nature and put the HP EVs into Attack. The difference in power will be noticeable, though.

The EVs given reach a Speed of 449, enough to outspeed a neutral natured max speed Salamence after 1 Dragon Dance, as well as all neutral natured max speed base 100 Choice Scarfers, by 1 point. If this is not enough (ie, Garchomp is still allowed in OU play), then moving 26 EVs from HP to Speed will reach 456 speed, enough to outspeed Adamant Scarfchomp by 1 point.

[/OTHER OPTIONS]

[OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

Nothing specific really…just make sure the opposing poke is at least at 50% health to maximize Deoxys’s chance to score a KO.

[/OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

[STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

Again, nothing much here….just predict really well and watch Deoxys shine. Predict poorly, and you’ve got dead DNA.

[/STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

[SET COUNTERS]

As previously mentioned, Blissey completely walls the set. Even if Focus Blast is replaced by Superpower or Focus Punch, it fails to dent Blissey enough to warrant use, as it does about the same amount to her, and less to Magnezone, than Focus Blast.

Magnezone can come in on anything but Focus Blast, and Volt Absorb Lanturn also poses problems, as Deoxys has no way of hitting it for SE damage.

Priority move users, Scizor, Lucario, and Metagross especially, pose a threat to Deoxys if it has been weakened. Though these moves do not usually OHKO, they do deal a large amount of damage due to the huge attack powers behind them. Metagross is of special mention, as it can resist everything on the set, especially Psycho Boost, then play mind games with Deoxys: stay in and get Bullet Punched, or switch out and eat a Pursuit?

[/SET COUNTERS]

[SET]

Name: Revenge Killer (Physical)
Item: Choice Band
IVs: 29 Def IVs
EVs: 6 HP, 252 Atk, 252 Spe
Nature: Adamant
Ability: Pressure
Stats: 241 HP, 317 Atk, 216 Def , 226 SpAtk, 190 SpDef , 459 Spe
Moves:
- Pursuit
- Superpower
- Zen Headbutt
- Ice Punch / ExtremeSpeed

[/SET]

[SET DESCRIPTION]

This is Physical-based revenge killer Deoxys. Pursuit is a must on any good revenge killer not named Dugtrio, and Superpower takes care of Blissey and keeps Weavile and Tyranitar away. Zen Headbutt will OHKO standard 4 HP / min SpDef Heracross and Infernape, with plenty of power to spare. The last slot depends on your team’s needs. Ice Punch will OHKO standard 4 HP / min Def Garchomp, as long as it isn’t holding a Yache berry. ExtremeSpeed should hardly ever need to be used, given Deoxys’ already astronomically high speed, but comes in handy when facing opponents with low health who will likely use priority moves on you.

Unfortunately, CB Deoxys poses less of a threat than the Specs version, as most of Deoxys’s best attacks are Special-based.

[/SET DESCRIPTION]

[OTHER OPTIONS]

ThunderPunch can find a moveslot if Gyarados is a concern—ThunderPunch can replace Ice Punch or Zen Headbutt if your team already has a way of dealing with Dragons and / or Heracross, Breloom and Infernape. Fire Punch could also be feasible to avoid being walled by bulky Steels who are neutral to Fighting (Jirachi, Skarmory, etc). Other than that, there’s really nothing worth noting on Deoxys’s physical side.

A Naïve or Hasty nature with 88 EVs can be used to achieve the same speed rating with a smaller EV investment; Deoxys’s attack power will suffer, but making a mixed Deoxys can be useful if you want to use Shadow Ball, Psycho Boost, or any other of Deoxys’s special-based moves for whatever reason (such as hitting Skarmory on its weaker defense with Thunderbolt). If Naïve nature is used, SpDef IVs must be dropped to 28, or drop Def IVs to 30 for Hasty nature.

[/OTHER OPTIONS]

[OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

A good revenge killer comes in, mops up, and goes out. Use it with anything that can reliably dent the opposition.

[/OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

[STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

Using a supporter pokemon along with Deoxys will certainly increase its survivability; putting up Reflect will allow Deoxys to return even in the face of Pursuit, albeit with a heavy price tag; Rapid Spinners can make Deoxys’ repeated entry less painful.

[/STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

[SET COUNTERS]

Beware of Spiritomb, as it can almost completely wall this set if Deoxys uses ExtremeSpeed, and can strike back with Pursuit, Dark Pulse, Shadow Ball, or Shadow Sneak. Any Psychic / Steel can also come in, fearing, at worst, a neutral, unSTABed Superpower, and counter with a status move (or Pursuit, in the case of Metagross).

Speaking of status, take special precautions against any common carriers of Thunder Wave, Body Slam, or Secret Power, such as Blissey, Gardevoir, or Togekiss, as paralysis cripples Deoxys dramatically. If Deoxys cannot KO the status user that turn, switch it out!

[/SET COUNTERS]

[SET]

Name: Trapper
Item: Leftovers/Grip Claw
IVs:
EVs: 252 HP, 129 Def, 129 SpDef
Nature: Timid / Jolly
Ability:
Stats:
Moves:
- Wrap
- Taunt
- Recover
- Night Shade / Seismic Toss

[/SET]

[SET DESCRIPTION]


[/SET DESCRIPTION]

[OTHER OPTIONS]


[/OTHER OPTIONS]

[OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]


[/OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

[STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]


[/STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

[SET COUNTERS]


[/SET COUNTERS]

[SET]

Name: Calm Mind Sweeper
Item: Life Orb / Lum Berry
IVs: Max
EVs: 46 HP / 252 SpAtk / 212 Spe
Nature: Modest
Ability: Pressure
Stats: 252 HP / 203 Atk / 216 Def / 317 SpAtk / 216 SpDef / 449 Spe
Moves:
- Calm Mind
- Thunderbolt
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast / Hidden Power [Fighting]

[/SET]

[SET DESCRIPTION]

As most players expect Deoxys to function as a support pokemon, this set can surprise the opposition and net you a few kills. Switch into anything that poses little threat to Deoxys (easier said than done), or on a revenge kill. If your opponent has a Sucker Puncher or Thunder Wave user, he or she will likely bring it out. Use this time to set up—2 Calm Minds will turn Deoxys into a late-game wrecking machine, doubling its mediocre 317 SpAtk to 634. If the opposition is weakened enough, only 1 CM may be required. Boltbeam + Fighting hits everything neutrally, and 10 of 17 types for super-effective damage. The fighting move of choice is down to the age-old debate of power vs. accuracy. Focus Blast is still preferable, as Deoxys needs all the power it can get.

Life Orb is standard equipment on a boosting late-game sweeper, but a Lum Berry will scout and protect Deoxys from surprise Thunder Waves or parahaxes that would otherwise rain on its parade.

[/SET DESCRIPTION]

[OTHER OPTIONS]

If Gyarados and Skarmory are already countered elsewhere on the team, dropping Thunderbolt in favor of Shadow Ball or Psychic to deal with Gengar and Psychics or Fighting-types is possible without hurting Deoxys’s type coverage. Taunt is also a fun toy, but it is difficult finding a spot for it on this set.

[/OTHER OPTIONS]

[OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

If Deoxys can receive a Nasty Plot or several Calm Minds from a Baton Passing teammate, Deoxys can easily drop Calm Mind from its own moveset in exchange for another attack move or Taunt. Togekiss and works best, as it discourage the opponent’s pokemon from using Ghost and Bug moves, then using Encore to ease Deoxys’s entry after a Baton Pass. Since Togekiss is relatively slow and bulky, it can be EVd to take the hit before BPing, letting Deoxys switch in for free.

[/OFFENSIVE COMBINATIONS]

[STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]


[/STRATEGIC COMBINATIONS]

[SET COUNTERS]

Blissey walls this so hard it gives Deoxys nightmares. In fact, it is best to eliminate Blissey altogether before even revealing this Deoxys. Snorlax can be a thorn in Deoxys’s side as well, as it can Curse alongside Deoxys, take the special hit, and strike back with a boosted Crunch or Body Slam. Cresselia and Celebi work as long as Deoxys does not carry Shadow Ball. Jirachi can come in paralyze Deoxys with Thunder, fearing a neutral unSTABed Shadow Ball or Focus Blast at worst. Skarmory can come in and Whirlwind away Deoxys if it isn’t carrying Thunderbolt, but it will take heavy damage from Deoxys’s Fighting attacks if Skarmory mispredicts.

[/SET COUNTERS]

[GENERAL COUNTERS]

Deoxys relies heavily on going first for much of its success, and as a result, any pokemon with a priority move is a threat to Deoxys, especially those possessing one that can hit it for SE damage, such as Shadow Sneak, and especially Sucker Punch. Spiritomb is a common carrier of both moves, and makes a great counter in general, as it is also immune to Deoxys’s only priority move, ExtremeSpeed, as well as any Psychic- and Fighting-type attacks which are common on Deoxys.

CB Adamant Dugtrio gets a special mention, as it can out-revenge kill Deoxys using its Arena Trap ability. If Deoxys is choiced and below 82% health, Dugtrio can easily win with Sucker Punch. If Deoxys is not choiced, though, Dugtrio must outpredict Deoxys, or else it can use Dugtrio to set up while Pressure cuts Duggy’s Sucker Punches down to 4 PP. Earthquake will deal comparable damage to Sucker Punch, and is a good option if Deoxys will try setting up. Dugtrio is a poor option if Deoxys is completely healthy, as its standard moves all fail to guarantee an OHKO, even with Stealth Rock in play.

Speaking of Sucker Punch, with the advent of Platinum, many more pokemon can learn Sucker Punch through a move tutor, so extreme caution must be exercised when using Deoxys offensively. Of course, Sucker Punch users can readily be used as set-up fodder for the Dual Screen and Calm Mind sets. Using ExtremeSpeed is also a solution, as Deoxys’s higher speed will cancel the opponent’s priority and end up going first. This is a poor option though, as ExtremeSpeed is relatively weak compared to Deoxys’s other mainstay attacks, and it receives no STAB bonus.

Walls also give Deoxys trouble, as it lacks the offensive oomph needed to 2HKO most of them. Blissey, for example, is never 2HKOed by a CB Superpower, and retaliates with a crippling Thunder Wave, then recovers the damage with Wish / Protect or Softboiled. Cresselia is also a fine counter, as its Psychic typing makes it fear only an unSTABed Pursuit or Shadow Ball. Cresselia can come in on any non-Shadow Ball move and Thunder Wave Deoxys.

Gardevoir can also give Deoxys a hard time, as it can survive predicted Psychic and Fighting attacks, then counter with Thunder Wave or Hypnosis. Ideally, though, Gardevoir should only switch into Deoxys on a revenge kill, as it is likely to take heavy damage from any physical attack Deoxys might use, resisted or not.

Deoxys also fears any sturdy Pursuit user, especially Metagross and Scizor. Both of these take neutral damage from Deoxys’ fighting attacks, and can deal heavy damage with their Pursuit or STAB of choice, should Deoxys stay in. On top of that, both Metagross and Scizor have STABed priority moves, and Scizor gets a Technician boost too, nullifying Deoxys’s great speed. They both also resist ExtremeSpeed, which is a welcome bonus. However, Scizor should be on the lookout for the surprise Fire Punch, as it can be 1- or 2HKOed by it (assuming Deoxys is using max attack and a Life Orb) depending on Scizor’s EV spread. Standard Agiligross is only 2HKOed by the Choice Banded variants, and a moderate investment in either Defense or HP can prevent that as well.

Tyranitar can threaten with Pursuit or Crunch, but must be wary of being Superpowered or Focus Blasted to death. If Deoxys is locked into a non-Fighting move, Tyranitar can easily beat Deoxys, but it should stay away if it using anything but a choice item.

Heracross is in a similar boat, as it can threaten Deoxys with a super-effective STABed Megahorn, but if Deoxys is EV’d to be faster than Scarfcross (which most are), Deoxys can beat Hera with a Psychic attack or Fire Punch.

Finally, a Scarfed Gengar can seriously screw with Deoxys, outspeeding it and putting it to sleep, or simply attacking with a powerful Shadow Ball; however, should Deoxys be using Knock Off or Trick, Gengar’s advantage will disappear with the loss of its Choice Scarf, allowing Deoxys an easy kill with Shadow Ball or Psychic.

[/GENERAL COUNTERS]

[PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER]

CM Deoxys + Thick Fat Hariyama + Skarmory

DS Deoxys + Gyarados + Steelix

Agilioxys + Togekiss + Blaziken

[/PUTTING IT ALL TOGETHER]


EDIT: finished CB set, will test and continue one set at a time
EDIT: Brain Fart! Fixed CB set....forgot Deoxys could learn element punches
EDIT: Put Intro paragraph in with Defensive Combination Section
Rating: 0

gamer reloaded

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Sep 15 '08

finished Specs set. Please look everything over and look for typos, etc. as well as anything I may have missed. Comments and questions are always welcome. Thx
Rating: 0

Slowflake

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Sep 15 '08

Might not have been the best idea to write this right as the metagame is being terraformed (and even that might be an understatement) by Platinum. I mean, off the top of my head I don't recall Deoxys getting anything really interesting, but Sucker Punch being passed around like candy can't be too good for a Psychic that relies mostly on going before everything else.
Rating: 0

ArecP

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Sep 15 '08

You're general information (the introduction) is lacking. It should be longer because it is Deoxys we're talking about here >_<
Rating: 0

Flounder

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Sep 16 '08

Both Arec and Slowflake have points.

This isn't an optimal time to write an analysis; Platinum's going to change a lot, what with Move Tutors and Formes and the like. I suggest you hold off on doing more; you're probably going to end up doing some heavy editing in the immediate future.

High OU pokemon like Deoxys-E and Salamence require top notch analyses; they're the ones people are going to look at the most. Look at Aldaron's Garchomp analysis. It's thorough, long, and highly in-depth.

You can't get away with cutting corners like you could with a mediocre UU pokemon like, say, Huntail.

Just my opinion. >_>
Rating: 0

CrossDragon

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Sep 16 '08

Needs more Dual Screen Deoxys-E.
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Ominous Doom

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Sep 16 '08

[QUOTE USER="flounder" TIME="1221539116"]Both Arec and Slowflake have points.

This isn't an optimal time to write an analysis; Platinum's going to change a lot, what with Move Tutors and Formes and the like. I suggest you hold off on doing more; you're probably going to end up doing some heavy editing in the immediate future.

High OU pokemon like Deoxys-E and Salamence require top notch analyses; they're the ones people are going to look at the most. Look at Aldaron's Garchomp analysis. It's thorough, long, and highly in-depth.

You can't get away with cutting corners like you could with a mediocre UU pokemon like, say, Huntail.

Just my opinion. >_>[/QUOTE]


I'll translate this wall of text: You just got shot by Flounder. And in a bad way.

Rating: 0

gamer reloaded

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Sep 21 '08

@ ArecP: what exactly is missing? The general overview is just that. The introductory paragraph familiarizes the reader with the important information that is not included in the sets; nothing more. If I missed something that should be included, please by all means specify.

@Slowflake: That is a very valid point I did not think of , thank you. But seeing as the changes in Pt have already been implemented on shoddy (never mind that you can't actually USE them yet....), it shouldn't put anything off too long. Besides, it means Deoxys can do some trickbanding now, so there's one more set to try out.

@Flounder: I don't expect to do this all myself...that's why I'm posting everything here as I go along so everyone else can contribute to making it the best (and not completely rushed) Deoxys-E analysis out there (unlike smogon's). And btw, As good as the Garchomp analysis is, it's to bad it has to be completely discarded and redone now that Garchomp is an uber :(

@CrossDragon: uhh.... I'm not done yet ;P

Progress is slow in coming, as I honestly don't have much time to work on this (notice all my posts are on weekends). Thanks for all your input so far; together we can make this a kickass analysis!
Rating: 0

ArecP

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Sep 22 '08

Have you seen the other analyses?

You'll see what I mean. Yours is just way too little.

Edit: Nevermind, I just looked at them myself and saw that you have that small section before Defensive Combination for some reason. Remove that or put it in with DC, it does not need to be there.
Rating: 0

Ominous Doom

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Sep 22 '08

[QUOTE USER="arecp" TIME="1222056613"]You'll see what I mean. Yours is just way too little.[/QUOTE]

See the last Dragonite sets, like S. Bulky / Support or SubPunch. Yeaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah.

Rating: 0

gamer reloaded

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Sep 23 '08

I looked at some of the other analyses, and I think I know what you guys are all yelling at me about. You want specific examples! Don't worry, you'll get them. Unfortunately, there's not much 'strategy' when it comes to the revenge killer sets I started with, hence, not much in the offensive combination sections. I'll flesh it out with damage calcs and whatnot, along with doing all the other sets I haven't gotten to yet (there are a LOT!). I just need to get a rough version down first, and then I embellish whilst I edit. That's my style.

I was also a little confused as to why the format made us list the same counters over and over again....seeing the slick setup, it all makes sense now (b^.^)b
Rating: 0

gamer reloaded

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Oct 5 '08

Worked on General Counters and Calm Mind Sweeper set. Please look everything over to make sure I didn't miss anything.

Thx, A
Rating: 0

ArecP

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Oct 6 '08

I believe that in the General Counters section the Pokemon should be the first thing named. The scenario is: Newb looks at the guide and wants to find a counter for Deoyxs really fast so he or she doesn't want to read through the text, he or she will just pick the first Pokemon name he or she sees.

Get what I mean? You'll see if you look at Aldaron's analyses or even mine. Not sure if Omni does it.

Since Dugtrio is a special mention...I would suggest mentioning it last since it's not truly a counter.

Also for the names, try to avoid parenthesis. For example, the first set just name it Special Revenge Killer...Physical Revenge Killer etc.

Hmm...I noticed that some of your counters cannot switch into Deoxys. I don't think they're considered counters if that happens.
Rating: 0

CrossDragon

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Oct 6 '08

I still don't see Dual Screen Deoxys damn it.

Where is this?

Deoxys @ Light Clay
252 HP/252 Spd/4 Def or SpDef
~ Pressure
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Where is this Dual Screen beast?
Rating: 0

gamer reloaded

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Oct 12 '08

[QUOTE USER="crossdragon" TIME="1223346193"]I still don't see Dual Screen Deoxys damn it.

Where is this?

Deoxys @ Light Clay
252 HP/252 Spd/4 Def or SpDef
~ Pressure
- Light Screen
- Reflect
- Stealth Rock
- Taunt

Where is this Dual Screen beast?[/QUOTE]

I'll get to it goddamnit....eventually. I use every set on shoddy first, and I haven't tried that exact set yet. I've been using a set similar to one my Starmie used to run before getting kicked off my team:

Deoxys "DS" @ Light Clay

Jolly, 252 HP 252 Def 6 Spe / 252 HP 129 Def 129 SpDef

-Reflect
-Light Screen
-Knock Off
-Recover / Psycho Shift

It's worked pretty well so far, as I've found that Knock Off is more useful in the long run than SR (blasphemy!). In either case, I have yet to have the time to actually sit down and write out the analysis for this set, so don't worry, I'll probably do it tomorrow if I get a chance. Besides, if anyone wants to see that set, they can go to smogon; I'm trying to make my analysis as different from smogon's as I can get away with, seeing as their mentality to it is "use it like Deoxys-FR/Deoxys-RS, but in OU." Frankly, Deoxys-E is neither durable or hard-hitting enough to imitate its uber forms effectively, regardless of it being able to do so. The DS and LO sweeper sets are highly popular because of these rushed analyses, but realistically, Deoxys-E isn't lasting long enough to be worth using those sets. Hell, this set would really only see use in the late game, to weaken the opponent's offense, as it would be killed off way too easily in the early game (hence its popularity as a suicide SR lead) if it even thinks about Spiking or setting up SR. Once I do this set, I'll do the moves you listed under "other options." Happy?
Rating: 0